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D2 holds it for longer. CPM 10V Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? They make excellent everyday carry steels, especially for light- and medium-duty tasks. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. D2 steel a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. Below shows the results of MagnaCut testing vs other steels where it is labeled as New Steel.. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? 14C28N steel, also known as Sandvik 14C28N, is stainless steel made by Sandvik, a European steel company in Sweden. So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. there seems to be an optimal procedure for every alloy (provided its heat treated to industial standards). D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ Around 61 Rc usually. Which knife for best? They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. Both knives were chopped through a nail. Its called memory metal because heat can get it to revert back to a previous shape. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. Hit like and all t. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Furthermore, because of its ultrahigh hardness, Maxamet is very prone to corrosion, probably worse than 1095. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. Many steel ratings seem to over-emphasize edge retention. I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. Read more. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! The Complete Guide to Knife and Tool Steels - Heinnie Haynes Its easy to sharpen. Also I notice 1095 looks like another underperformer as there doesnt look to be any reason to use it over 5160 which I cant imagine is any more expensive than 1095. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. Edge retention is the ability of a knife to maintain cutting ability during cutting. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. CPM 4V But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. S35VN D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? Knife Steel Guide - Knife Life - Blade HQ Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. SG2 In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. Question. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. How Good Is Nitro V Stainless Steel - Knives & Gear second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. And given the recipe, it has a low number of carbides, the extra-hard microcrystals in steel that provide the hardness necessary for a stable and sharp edge. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. G10 However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. XHP is an exceptionally well-balanced steel with excellent all-around attributes. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. 14c28n has less carbon and chromium as compared to 9Cr steel. 1095 The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. If you have a favorite steel, rock on! This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide. . Is 14c28n A Good Knife Steel? [Complete Steel Guide] Each of these contributes to a knifes overall performance. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. D2/K110 pros/cons in 2020? - Spyderco Forums A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. Your email address will not be published. 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. It is among the steel knives with exceptional toughness while maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. Knife Steel Rust Testing 1095, 8Cr13Mov, D2, 420HC, Walmart - YouTube Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. There are a few other complicating factors such as carbon in solution and plate martensite, especially in low alloy steels such as described in this article. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. 2. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. . Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? 14C28N VS Steel. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. Choose a factor below to start sorting. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Guide to the Best Knife Steel | Knife Informer 14C28N. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. They differ little in composition and treatment. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. This grade can be treated cryogenically to improve edge retention. Even it enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. does 1.4116 deserve the title of title of ultimate trash steel? Combination of knife steel properties. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. Read more about how it works here. The biggest change that is seen with powder metallurgy in measured properties is in regards to toughness. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article). Is 14c28n Steel Good For Knives? A Complete Guide - Knife Pulse 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. Its soft, with very low carbon content. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. Thanks Larrin, I wont go into detail about those here. Short of purposeful abuse, its all but impossible to chip an edge on an INFI blade. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Sorry about the misinformation. D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. 14C28N vs D2: Which Steel Is Better? - Knifeful.com Sandvik 12c27 Stainless Steel Review: Is it Really Great CPM154 is a truly superior steel. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. Quick-reference guide: Know your knife steels - KnivesShipFree I havent tested Sleipner yet. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. Get for a complete guide about other steel; you can read 14c28n vs 8cr13mov reviews. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Thank you for such a great article! Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. I like it. I also have a video that summarizes some of the information below while also showing how some of the experiments work. can you strike twice as fast with the knife? In reality hardly difference. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. and why would anyone want to use it when 420HC looks so much better for a simple stainless steel option. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. These are Chinese-produced steels that recently started showing up in Chinese-made knives. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. MC66 The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Id think that line would be significantly to the left, more in the data swarm. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). The both blade are equally wear resistant. The material increase machinability and strength. But which? There are also hardness/toughness and hardness/TCC charts.but no tables backing this charts. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. They tend to be relatively expensive and difficult to sharpen, as they have high wear resistance. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. Though the volume of carbonitrides in the steel is relatively high. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, read an article I wrote on budget steels here, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/, https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/, The Pros And Cons Of Stainless Steel Copper And Aluminum Brewing Equipment SanctuaryBrewCo, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. The stainless steel rating. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? Been here before? Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. CRKT and Spyderco use BD1. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. Another very tough and highly wear-resistant steel grade is the D2. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. I think they are complementary and you should watch/read both. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily.