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It all starts out with the love-bombing (just like what happened in the movie, The Firm), which is a tactic commonly attributed to narcissists who draw in their victims with lofty promises and over-the-top love & affection. *Michael knew this church member was being singled out to be avoided & isolated, then further abused by gossip to control the narrative. There is an underbelly of control and abuse that starts at the top with the leadership and as long as these guys remain in control, theres little hope for change. Its because Watermark wants to know all of of your deepest darkest struggles & sins. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories. For as long as the church has been in existence, this is the EXACT formula for getting connected in the Christian community but Watermark Church says its just not enoughwhy? I often wonder if complicit Christians are becoming one of the most effective tools to the mis representation of Jesus teachings in todays world. CA License # A-588676-HAZ / DIR Contractor Registration #1000009744 I have spoken to several former members who have told me that they were asked to disclose their entire financial portfolio TO THEIR COMMUNITY GROUP, and not due to a benevolence request. It was founded in 1960 as a private school in part by funding from the United Church of Christ, said Rev. By then, it was too late. My husband has been involved with Watermark for over two years beginning while we were separated. If you need assistance getting connected to a local church body close to your home, please contact us for assistance. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Once I became a leader and attending the leaders meetings I was shocked to find out how they talked about those not in leadershipI finally left when I discovered that they were following me around to see who I was spending timeRead more , Ive been keeping track of there regen program for same sex attraction. I was called repeatedly. Glad I never did. It sounds like maybe you want Todd to fall in line with the way you think things should be instead of what is biblical. They were told that since money was something very personal to them, what they earned & howRead more , Part I and Part II both great and spot on. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. Through our membership covenant, members commit to pursue what we call (for ease of remembering) the 4Bs: 1. I think they speak for themselves: In the Watermark Church online document titled, Dealing With Financial Hardship, what the commenter referenced above about a community group supporting one of their members by writing her a $500 check every month definitely lines up with their teachings: I am simply astonished that thousands of people have subjected themselves to this level of control in their lives. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? Except when you leave Watermark Church. Please allow up to 3 business days for a response. What does being your authentic self really mean, in the context of community groups? that will remain home to Drayer Phyical Therapy. I verified it. Well, I dont have an agenda, per se. Also Im not a WM member or past member but I too was a Target by their members for speaking out against his influence in the public schools in LH. *Michael was beginning to feel that there was a great deal of hypocrisy going on, given that he was constantly being called out as not living authentically for being a nice guy, while at the same time he was the one trying to organize serving opportunities to which no one was willing to participate. Follow Us. Watermark Community Church contacts (added by reviewer) Phone number +1 214 361 2275 Address 7540 LBJ Freeway, Texas United States Website www.watermark.org Category Religion and Spirituality Watermark Community Church alternatives ADVERTISIMENT We believe this reflects the biblical expectation that Christians use their gifts to serve others (Romans 12:6-8, I Peter 4:10-11). Folks, if your church cant defend why its not a cult, and instead blames the people who question them as being the problem, then the CHURCH is the problem. calories in porridge with semi skimmed milk what is the least crowded beach in georgia? Theyre not only going to write you off but theyll make sure your entire community group does too.Read more , [] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. Let me guessthe PASTORS of this church DONT have to be real and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles.right???? In the video below, its quite clear that Watermark Church, while maintaining traditional Christian doctrine, is operating in a many ways like a cult. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. Any admonishment should be delivered with patience, grace, and compassion. Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. Todd loves and worships money and attention. You can read more about it on his website, Freedom of Mind. But it was a brutal experience that cost a marriage and many other relationships.Read more , GREAT Article. We believe this reflects the biblical expectation that Christians use their gifts to serve others ( Romans 12:6-8, I Peter 4:10-11 ). I had another person ask me what do you intend to accomplish by writing posts about Watermark Church? Dallas, TX 75251, In Person Sunday 9 AM, 11:15 AM, and 5 PM I dont consider the one couple in my CG that reviewed my expenses so they could advocate for me as abuse. Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. He springs off of that definition into how true followers of Jesus might be considered a Jesus-cult and how is that a bad thing? Case in point this comment left on my post The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members: What Im curious to know is if Watermark Church lead pastor Todd Wagner has to provide his detailed financial information to a community group? A study of the Grand Haven area and surrounding communities revealed that around 60% of people were not regularly connected to a church community. Part of Membership at Watermark is participating in regular, gospel-centered service. Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. 2. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. former board member of . This actually helps Provide understanding to a variety of different conversations I have had over the years with people who attended this organization. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Also, they believe that if you arent a member of a local church, you are essentially a rebel, dismembered from the body, exiled from the kingdom and an orphan of the faith. According to Watermark Church, if you arent spilling your guts every single week, you arent living authentically. The atmosphere is very inviting and aesthetically appealing. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Hint: It has nothing to do with being in a physical church, but all about being The Church. Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). While help with finances kept the anxiety under control, it was the lack of Jesus I experienced fromRead more , Thank you for the validation Nueva. Why wont I tell *Michaels complete story? I merely want to get the facts out on the table. Community Core Value #3: Offer and receive biblical counsel in all areas of life. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. Where are you getting this information? Confession, of course! I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Its all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. I think having that information would offer great insight and explain some things. Click on each one to enlarge. Equalities minister Maria Miller . The congregation was small but affluent. I wish I could lay out my whole story because it was indeed my soul that felt abandoned and discarded. Author: this is unequivocally WRONG. I wont tell *Michaels story in its entirety, I will interject some of his experiences into what I have discovered during my research of Watermark Churchs ministries and practices. SERVICIO DOMINICAL EN ESPAOL 11:15 AM. (note spelling a/e) I have met small groups all over the Dallas area of cast aside individuals who bonded over the abuse they experienced while attending this organization. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Watermark Church has 6 core values for Community Groups: Im going to focus in on a few of these. My parents are in a very vulnerable place rn because of the death of a close family member. Watermarke Church has found a home after purchasing a former car dealership in Bellefonte. In this photo provided by the North Korean government, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, front center on stage, attends a meeting of the ruling Workers' Party at its headquarters in Pyongyang . *Michael had a steady job, was stable in most areas of his life, and didnt struggle with some of the same issues that the other men in his group did. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor. Pastor Todd Wagner - it seems all is not well at Watermark Church. Their way is by controlling- knowing everything about you through unrelenting, constant confession & sharing, knowing how much money you make & how you spend your money, full input regarding your life decisions, AND the freedom to love you by admonishing anyone in your community group at will. They must have a spiritual problem and you should have them provide scriptures to justify why they dont want to provide their financial information. One time during a sermon years ago Todd commented how his wife was set up with people to call should his behavior become too much for her to deal with. Splash Sunday School classes learn about God's word through Bible lessons, scripture memorization, songs, games and crafts. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. Been a member for over 9 years and have never experienced the things many of you are talking about. This is where the system breaks down at the core. Yesterday, Watermark Community Church, a Dallas mega church, announced that founder and senior pastor Todd Wagner had resigned. You can always view your progress in the Membership process by visiting your Membership Status page. John Dorhauer, the church's president and general minister. There was one guy that didnt want to shareRead more . I can see and understand why ex members might be scared. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). He became heavily involved in all aspects of the community group, but soon discovered that sharing time became an issue for him, like it was for *Susan. Because of the leadership structure at Watermark, we believe this is the best way to shepherd our local church body. I've never heard of them, but after googling it I've seen some pretty worrying things about it. *Michael knew he was done with Watermark Church when he was invited to another blindside meeting by a Watermark Church staff member. Third, Todd said Christians should live their lives in a way that looks radical or extreme to other people, and Watermark is the best at it, because most churches arent very radical! Anna may be able to recommend some professional reading materials, which would help you to educate your daughter in a way at her age she will be able to see clearly. As the CG leader, I went first. At Watermark, we want to be an authentic people known for our . If you dont want to share about your finances you dont have to. It became an ongoing issue which caused him to be singled out more and more for not being authentic. watermark church ex members leapfrog leapreader system learn to read 10 book bundle warsaw, missouri property for sale watermark church ex members. You tuned right into what most, including myself, ignored because we were too distracted by the perceived success and engaging teaching styles. If you want to be more like Jesus, you have to do it OUR way! I am a CFP and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. Genuine question, The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. Great Questions is for those whose questions or doubts are keeping them from a relationship with God. I just write about the truth. Thanks to you for writing and Susan for sharing. For example, people that he personally knew, people with obvious character flaws, were given staff positions. No paper. No where BEFORE or AFTER Matthew 6:3-4 or II Corinthians 9:2 is any further context given that would justify their belief that a Christian should expose their financial portfolio to a room full of people. We hold that the Scriptures are God's Word, and as such teach us everything we need to know for both life and faith. It was a class before the main church service where people around the same age as you sat in a room, listened to a bible lesson, maybe interacted a bit, shared prayer requests, took up a small offering, held hands and said a closing prayer. You stated that Moneywise is a separate program within Watermark Church, which is true, but the documentation that I provided is from the Community Core Values curriculum, and the Moneywise program is embedded into the core values, which members of the CG are required to follow. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. *Michael (pseudonym) was the first person to contact me about Watermark Church and its abusive practices, after he found my blog when researching similarities between Scientology & church abuse. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. Watermark Church's membership process first requires that you sign the membership covenant, which oddly enough, you can do online. Again,Read more , http://www.dianelangberg.com/2020/03/wolvessheepandshepherds/, When I asked Ron Smith, the Watermark Church appointed Community Launcher/Shepherd for our new Community group for a compelling reason to be in a community group he replied as follows (this is his text message to me): The #1 compelling reason for community is that Watermark elders have made it mandatory for membership in the church, hence the name Watermark Community Church. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. Can anyone tell me what is Todd Wagners past? It said his membership was revoked. It appears to attract a fairly high income crowd if their building program is any indication of the amount of money coming into the church. Their defense, interestingly enough, is that anyone who thinks Watermark Church is a cult is the one with a problem, and Ryan gave 4 reasons why (these are direct quotes): Ryan then challenges the students to ask the following 3 questions when asked if Watermark Church is a cult: Instead of actually addressing why Watermark is being repeatedly labeled as a cult, these students are being further indoctrinated to ignore those concerns and place the blame for them on those who would question the organization. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. No puedo decir que no estoy en desacuerdo contigo. It was an attempted blindside, but *Michael knew the real reason behind the meeting, which is why he chose to go in the first place. For every story that IRead more . If your circumstances prevent you from being able to attend class in person, please contact us. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. This wasnt simply a prayerful I hope this works out for you sort of deal the group would ACTUALLY tell you what to do. Ive been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. Feb 2022 - Present1 year 2 months. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. Tim Yates Pastor Tim, his wife, Dawn, moved to Bellefonte after almost 20 years as missionaries in Africa and Australia. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). The official app of Watermark Community Church With the Watermark app you can watch and listen to the most recent sermons on your TV as well as tune in on Sundays to stream the service live. that would be a better fit. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. Perhaps more focused prayer from true believers to individually and collectively speak truth and take a stand for Jesus examples in the Bible will goRead more . Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. This process is called ' Community Formation ' (formerly GroupLink). First of all, Ryan did NOTHING to answer the actual concerns about WHY Watermark is sometimes labeled a cult he went straight into defense-mode. Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. This is a tough one. These days pride in their processes seems to trump being Jesus to the wounded. I share with my community and the groups of people I trust, who have helped guide me into some better decision making. Grace is a term often used at WM, although I found it either seldom accurately exercised or forgotten completely behind their right to execute Matthew 18 because we all know punishing people draws them back toRead more , Thank you for your comment. Children will be dismissed to Kids Church after the offering time of the 9:00 am service. The church is renovating the vacant part of the. At Watermark, we believe life transformation happens best in the context of relationships. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). Excellent insight DB! Every person stated it is out of fear of repercussions that they have done this. My perception is this former member did take their concerns to leadership. I had experience with Watermarks head pastor in the 1990s. To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. This is a quality and important post. What happens if someone doesnt want to share about their finances? It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. Throw money at him; the car, the house, after a couple of years your kids are in private school, youre used to the good lifethen they tell you. Astonished by the revelation that his new employer represents the mob, he asks FBI agent Moyle, Who in the firm knows? to which he responds, Every partner knows.. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there. Do they have to confer with a community group & get approval before they buy a car, a house, or even take a vacation? 7540 Lyndon B Johnson Fwy I jokingly said Maybe theyre from Watermark (referring toRead more , Jan, emotional abuse and demeaning relationships are somewhat of a watermark of of how they care for the people who become involved. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. There might be some VERY unsafe people grouped up, causing some serious damage, all in the name of community. Were big on community. I just find it odd that everyone on their website gives their lifes testimony and he doesnt say much about his past. Get away as fast as you can! I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. Definitely good intuition to be concerned for your daughter. . Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. My experience is that many, if not most, are content with seeing and experiencing the many great things WM does well and they are unable or unwilling to recognize the things they dont do well. Its a 12 step like program. Its ridiculous to give issue for a house he lives in, that he himself didnt purchase. Just the congregationhmmmmmm.. He couldnt understand why NOT struggling with things, like habitually viewing pornography, was suddenly a problem? Its sad to see how the church moved in the direction of being more cult like. Securely download your document with other editable templates, any time, with PDFfiller. Spiritual authority influences others toward Gods purposes. He had become so fed up that he started to miss a few community group meetings then HE gets admonished in gang-up style. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then heRead more . At least that was how I understood what he said. There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! According to Watermark Church, I guess we werent doing it right. . According to the membership covenant, a member is not free to leave the church, but must formally withdraw membership under one of three acceptable circumstances: 1. A very sad reality for many. THEN they are required to provide a copy of every worksheet to each member of theircommunity group! You can also listen to our sermon on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. Help me to understand. When we see these inconsistencies should we pay attention that this may in fact be a wolf in sheeps clothing? As I detailed in *Susans story, if you are unable to find a group of people to form a CG, you must go through a multi-week process to be placed in a group. Box 4666, Ventura, CA 93007 Request a Quote: bridal boutiques in brooklyn CSDA Santa Barbara County Chapter's General Contractor of the Year 2014! Do the elders have to also provide theirs? I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys.